Curse

ogami_ito · Sep 12, 2006, 03:56 AM // 03:56

I’m creating this thread and pulling it out of the last discussion about developer comments (http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10041718) . This is really just a bunch of rambling thoughts.

What I’m thinking is…maybe Factions is really 100% Asian themed…including Luxons and Kurziks…but we the players don’t realize it.

OK. So we all recognize Shing Jea island and Kaineng as being “Asian”. Both have architectural elements that we can recognize as sort of “Fusion Asian”. Chinese gates; stone buildings with curved thatch roofs; pagodas. Big crumbling multi-storied slum projects. (evidently Kaineng was built from the same mob-related contractors who build early 20th century Hong Kong). The armor / cloths are somewhat Asian too. Kaineng armor looks Chinese or Japanese. As does Luxon 15K warrior armor.

But what about Kurzik and Luxon? I think they rest of Factions is actually Asian themed, but we don’t recognize it as such because we think Asian = Japan and/or China (and/or Korea I guess)

Well, what if Luxon are supposed to be like Mongolians? The generic barbarian horde that destroy chitty walls (South Park reference there for those who know). Only problem is…we don’t recognize them as such, in part because of ignorance of Mongolians…and in part because they don’t look like Mongolians and don’t ride small horses.

Kurzik…well…I think the Kurzik towns and cities remind me of Ankor Bat in Cambodia…beautiful ruins covered by grayish jungle trees. Everyone says the Kurzik are very gothic. I thought they look rather Russian myself – and the names sound Germanic and/or Russian. OK. Its hard to think of the Kurziks as Asians.

So what could an even more Asian themed chapter look like?

First of all, in an Asian themed chapter, I think there should have a Kaineng faction. The Emperor seems like he actually is a bad guy and he should be going to war with someone. Really, an Emperor that allows most of his capital city to devolve into slum has some issues.

The Ritualist looks a little South-East Asian. Is that on purpose?
We should have a Tibetan or Thai themed faction with a Ritualist leader.

The Kurziks can establish a colony in a living forest. And then they shed some of the dark clothes and have topless dancing girls and monkey guardians…sort of Cambodian I guess.

Actually, there should be South-Asian factions. Add some Thai art elements. Indian-like forces who ride elephant-like creatures. I would add Vietnam and Philippians here, but I don’t know enough about their art. Korea too for that matter. My understanding is that, like Japan, Vietnam and Korean art and architecture was heavily influenced by China (more so than Japanese)

Rounded Hakka-style fortresses could be cool too.

I guess my point is that there is a lot that could be added that would be more recognizably “Asian” than what was introduced in Factions.

Zinger314 · Sep 12, 2006, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Asia is a really big continent.

Don't overthink it, play the game.

Knightsaber Sith · Sep 12, 2006, 04:10 AM // 04:10

If you think the Kurzick Juggernauts look like monkies; you must have gone to a very unusual zoo. And it's Angkor Wat not Ankor Bat. The Kurzick look Russian but it's hard to think of them as asian? The majority of Russia is in Asia..

It might not be soo recognizably asian; but ya know what? Factions is all said and done; we're moving on to Nightfall buddy.

ogami_ito · Sep 12, 2006, 05:59 AM // 05:59

OK. Did you read the developers post? They are considering to put in more Asian content, in light of the release in China. From that post, I would say that Factions is not "all said and done." At least, I hope not.

Sorry for misspelling Angkor Wat too. But I did not say the Juggs look like monkeys. They are actually bio-magically-engineered Assualt Mechs.

You are right though. Majority of Russia is in Asia, but we generally don't think of Russia as an Asian nation. For that matter, a great deal of East Russia population are Mongolians. And furthermore, many many caucasion Russians have Mongolian blood...including myself. Ever here the expression "Scratch a Russian and their is Tartor underneath"?

lightblade · Sep 12, 2006, 06:58 AM // 06:58

Do you call Russians Asian? Technically it has over 3/4 of it's land in Asia.

TheMosesPHD · Sep 12, 2006, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogami_ito

OK. Did you read the developers post? They are considering to put in more Asian content, in light of the release in China. From that post, I would say that Factions is not "all said and done." At least, I hope not.

Factions is all said and done. If they make the decision to create more China themed content it will be in future chapters. If my half-photographic memory serves me right, it actually says "in future chapters" or "in future campaigns" or what-not near the end of the very sentence that states they're considering adding more asian (Chinese) themed content.

Lord Sojar · Sep 12, 2006, 07:33 AM // 07:33

So....your basically implying that they don't add content to existing chapters, but rather release it in future ones....right....because Sorrow's Furnace was some tiny, insignificant update that no one does..... do you know who the iron forgeman is???!!!

Amity and Truth · Sep 12, 2006, 07:57 AM // 07:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

So....your basically implying that they don't add content to existing chapters, but rather release it in future ones....right....because Sorrow's Furnace was some tiny, insignificant update that no one does..... do you know who the iron forgeman is???!!!

In case you don't know. Sorrows Furnace was something different. It should have been included in the Prophecies Campaign to start with and simply wasn't finished fast enough for the release. So they took the opportunity and made it a free mini expansion.
They've got a very tight business plan, releasing a chapter every 6 months. Do you really think there is enough time to release another one of those updates? I don't think so. Time taken away from the development to finish unfinished parts of the game is also time that will be needed later on. So if you go back and implement Sorrows Furnace 2, you will suddenly be quite a few days short on the next expansion. So all of a sudden you've got to drop yet another area as it is unfinished.
And then? Yep, you later on finish the unfinished business but again, new business is getting pushed back - slowly but steadily accumulating delay.

I'd rather have a chapter that has been completed and finished than having a half-done chapter which requires even more work after it's release.

-Loki- · Sep 12, 2006, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amity and Truth

In case you don't know. Sorrows Furnace was something different. It should have been included in the Prophecies Campaign to start with and simply wasn't finished fast enough for the release. So they took the opportunity and made it a free mini expansion.

It was actually not meant to be included in Prophecies, they decided to do it when they realised they would have to delay Factions significantly.

Demesis · Sep 12, 2006, 11:49 AM // 11:49

I'm Asian. But I enjoyed the Tyrian clothing, weapons and architecture more than Factions.

But because so many white boys are ninja/anime/asian-wannabes (no offense), the Asian theme is a sort of a gimmick in my opinion... :/

The temples, buildings and the sort are still very 'westernized' if you look at the architecture carefully. I've been to real Asian buildings built hundreds of years ago and stone is nothing we use heavily in our buildings. The clothing npc's wear in the game look like something out of FF8.

With all the cultural discrepancies aside, Factions was quite a good game. However, because quite a lot of the Asian cultural references are incorrect and misleading, I won't take it seriously if people tell me it's an 'Asian' themed game.

It's more like Final Fantasy where it is neither 'Asian', 'Western' or 'African' themed, rather, it has a theme of it's own.

I just cringe when some people seriously think that's what Asians wear and look and build in real life... And that is when I have to tell them that GW is just a game and it's supposedly 'Asian' themed. It's not a gateway to understanding Asian culture, and it certainly isn't something to be taken seriously.

Tetris L · Sep 12, 2006, 12:11 PM // 12:11

The Kurzick names are very clearly European inspired, taken from Germanic / Slavic languages.

Similar the Luxon names, which are quite clearly ancient Greek inspired.

I take it ANet deliberately used a different non-Asian theme for the Luxons and Kurzick to make clear that these two peoples are cultures of their own.

Numa Pompilius · Sep 12, 2006, 12:14 PM // 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demesis

won't take it seriously if people tell me it's an 'Asian' themed game.

So true.
And once one gets to the jade sea or the forrest, even the thin veneer of "manga-asian" present in Kaineng city disappears.

Knightsaber Sith · Sep 12, 2006, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogami_ito

The Kurziks can establish a colony in a living forest. And then they shed some of the dark clothes and have topless dancing girls and monkey guardians…sort of Cambodian I guess.

If you weren't refering to the Juggernauts; frankly I have no idea what you're talking about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

So....your basically implying that they don't add content to existing chapters, but rather release it in future ones....right....because Sorrow's Furnace was some tiny, insignificant update that no one does..... do you know who the iron forgeman is???!!!

Gaile has already stated it's highly unlikely the'll ever do another SF style update.

Silver_Fang · Sep 12, 2006, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Westernized dragon.

And the 4 celestial guardians

It suppose to be Green Dragon, Red Phoenix, White Tiger and Black Tortoise. Kirin isn't one of the celestial guardian.

Black Tortoise is wierd tho because they have a snake around their body, but oh well.

lyra_song · Sep 12, 2006, 02:28 PM // 14:28

These threads always turn into some racist/bias/ignorant jibberish. :|

ogami_ito · Sep 12, 2006, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demesis

I'm Asian. But I enjoyed the Tyrian clothing, weapons and architecture more than Factions..

To each their own. I like some from both. But with Factions you can select the style of clothes to use with any function.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demesis

But because so many white boys are ninja/anime/asian-wannabes (no offense), the Asian theme is a sort of a gimmick in my opinion... :/..

There is nothing really anime or ninja about Factions though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demesis

The temples, buildings and the sort are still very 'westernized' if you look at the architecture carefully. I've been to real Asian buildings built hundreds of years ago and stone is nothing we use heavily in our buildings. The clothing npc's wear in the game look like something out of FF8.
..

THIS IS WHAT I LIKE ABOUT FACTIONS. Its not Asian. There is no such thing as Asian style anyway. But there is some blend of different elements from different Asian cultures and I think that's cool. Its fantasy Asian. I don't really like Western-Eastern blend (especially food), but the buildings seem to take and mix from different countries. Kaineng really reminds me of the Old Walled City of Hong Kong, only send back in time 500 years. Not that I have been there (I think it was torn down during the 80s), but I have walked all around the Kowloon area and have a feel for what it must have been like. All layer on layer (built by different contractors) of crappy appartments lit with neon lit rooms and plumbing pipes on the outside of the building. And Shing Jea sort of looks like Hokaido, but with a little more Chinese influence. To me anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demesis

With all the cultural discrepancies aside, Factions was quite a good game. However, because quite a lot of the Asian cultural references are incorrect and misleading, I won't take it seriously if people tell me it's an 'Asian' themed game. It's more like Final Fantasy where it is neither 'Asian', 'Western' or 'African' themed, rather, it has a theme of it's own.
..

Does Lord of the Rings have cultural discrepancies? No...its fantasy, but fantasy flavored with mythology from Northern Europe. Factions is fantasy too...but with a little Asian flavor. Its like going to a "good" Chinese food restaurant in the US and ordering Beef and Broccoli. The dish comes out and it seems sort of Chinese. And its tastes good I guess. But of course, you can't get Beef and Broccoli in China! (at least, I never had it here)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demesis

I just cringe when some people seriously think that's what Asians wear and look and build in real life... And that is when I have to tell them that GW is just a game and it's supposedly 'Asian' themed. It's not a gateway to understanding Asian culture, and it certainly isn't something to be taken seriously.

Do people really think "Asians" dress like that? No way. No one is that stupid. That's like asking if people dress like Legola or Aragon. Except at Society for Creative Anachronism meetings they do.

Zexion · Sep 12, 2006, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogami_ito

Kurzik…well…I think the Kurzik towns and cities remind me of Ankor Bat in Cambodia…beautiful ruins covered by grayish jungle trees. Everyone says the Kurzik are very gothic. I thought they look rather Russian myself – and the names sound Germanic and/or Russian. OK. Its hard to think of the Kurziks as Asians.

You do realise the original Goths are in fact Germans, right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goths

_Zexion

EPO Bot · Sep 12, 2006, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Factions is not Asian based, it's more like kung-fu movie based.

Cherno · Sep 12, 2006, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogami_ito

There is nothing really anime or ninja about Factions though.

Right... well apart from the ninjas...erm... assassins as a major character in the game.

The first part of the game is definately "asian" or rather oriental themed. But remember this is a game, so it will be an exaggerated style based off off the original. It is also attempting a blend of cultures. That's why you see more stone than would be typical. It is all a blend. I am sure everyone know what is composed of when saying Asia, but for those who don't let's take a look at a map:

Asia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:L...subregions.png

The kurziks definatly have a germanic/slavik bent to their culture, which isn't usual considering the portions of eastern europe/western asia. The luxons are also a mixture as others have indicated it has a greek touch to it. Greeze is at the juncture of Europe, Asia and Africa.

Don't get too hung up on political correctness or ethnic diversity, it's just a game. I always did feel like it was a bit gimmicky however. That may just be based on bad timing. Too much of the "Asian invasion" right now. It just seemed like a marketing department sitting around thinking "Hmm, what do we want the next theme to be?" "I know Anime is really popular, and everyone loves ninjas" Which may very well be what happened, and there really isn't anything wrong with playing up to the current trends, just would like to see a little more originality.

Nightfall feels fresher to me. I think I will enjoy it more than I did factions. I like factions, but really only play through on my characters to get elite skills or armor. Can take a character from Kaineng through to end game in about 15 hours and then never play them through Cantha again. Not a lot of replayability in this game I think.

prodigy ming · Sep 12, 2006, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogami_ito

Do people really think "Asians" dress like that? No way. No one is that stupid. That's like asking if people dress like Legola or Aragon. Except at Society for Creative Anachronism meetings they do.

Of course I don't think anyone is stupid enough to think Asian dress like that today. But a bet there will be at least some people who think ancient Asian dress that way.

Faction IMO was ok... wasn't really that great or that bad either. (would have been better if they design something more original other than a ninja rip and less running across cathan back and forth for delivery quests)
And I don't blame Anet for getting any of the Asian cultures wrong. Most westerners know about Asia only included: dim sum, sushi, kung fu, samurai and ninjas... (this is a hugh generalization, I am sorry, I know there are individuals educated in this area as well). If Anet present any thing other than these, most people wouldn't recongnize it as Asian anyways and defeat the whole purpose of Asian theme. heck, even Asian sometimes get their own culture wrong... I was told that some Chinese mistake their own hanfu as kimono.
Final word is... Anet tried and the result was acceptable. I wouldn't mind if they don't touch the Asian theme ever again, but I would definatly support them if they do decide to do so.

I think Anet decide to make Nightfall based on middle-east/North Africa is because of the current spotlight in that area too...